Passion Projects

Speaker 0 00:00:01 Hi, I'm Erin Swarovski and I'm Austin show this week, we're going to talk about passion projects, Speaker 1 00:00:11 Why we need them, why we do them and how they can help you in your career path. Being a little bleak, feeling a little burned out, maybe it's time to do a passion project. I want to be more passionate about that Austin fashion. What is a passion project? Speaker 2 00:00:36 And, you know, I like to break things down with words, you know, definitions. So I grabbed a couple of dictionary definitions, one being an intense driving or overmastering feeling or conviction, right. As, as a definition for passion. And I think that's a good one in relation to the idea of a passion project, right? And, and, and how that might be different than say a brief driven project, a client project. And not that, you know, not that there can't be passion and the client driven project, but often if I'm making something, that's, it's a personal expression. I get that idea of that overmastering feeling or an intense driving feeling. It feels like I got to make this thing. It's like, I got to get this out of me. Right. Um, and that motivating emotion is, is just different than say, you know, the professional motivation or the problem-solving motivation that comes with a brief. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:01:30 I think, you know, whenever I get a project from a client, I find a reason to be passionate about it. They're calling us in or me in to, to make something for them. So for me, like a passion project is something that you make entirely for yourself for whatever reason Speaker 2 00:01:50 I would agree. And I think you came up with a great definition. Um, you want, you want to read it? Do you want me to read it? You read it. You're very active. All right. All right. Yes. And I have, I have it printed out here. So, uh, uh, non-commissioned work that is motivated solely by the maker's conceptual and emotional vision is the act of making that drives you to create your desire to put out into the universe with no expectations is ultimately the end result. I think Speaker 0 00:02:17 That's that last part, your desire to put it out into the universe and not have any expectations of it is really important. I think a lot of times we think passion projects are gonna have some kind of immediate results, you know? Um, and I think what they have done for me over my career, both personally, and as far as the studio goes is they've just kind of added to my collective knowledge, which propels me forward. So I, I think like when you go into a passion project, for me, it's a desire to do the piece itself and not really kind of have any expectations on what it's going to do for you after, because it will do something it's just probably not what you expect it well, you know? Right, right. Speaker 2 00:03:08 Well, that's interesting too, because that made me think about that idea. We've kicked around like, you know, passion versus say a nation, right? The feeling of alienation in the sense of feeling disconnected, or just not inspired, not motivated that you're just kind of maybe on a treadmill, doing things, turning out work, but it's not fulfilling you in a way that is recharging revitalizing. And that's where I think a passion project for say, professionals becomes really important because it can turn that, that mirror somewhat inward a little bit, like you talked about getting to know yourself a little more and being able to recharge and connect to those, those feelings that, Hey, I need to do something that matters. Speaker 0 00:03:53 Right. But I was starting out my career. I remember meeting with some of the, and I'm glad I don't remember his name because if I said it might be the story is because I was only at DK a couple of years that I've got a couple of really beautiful things there. And I started shopping my book a little bit. I wasn't really interested in leaving, but I was just kind of looking around and I was meeting with this guy and he was a very, very senior creative director. And he and I was talking about how, you know, the work really drives me and I'm passionate about it. And every once in a while, it's nice to have one of those jobs that just kind of fills you up. And he was like, oh, if you want that, like you have to do that on your own. Speaker 0 00:04:35 That's not going to come from the work. And I was just like, that's fucking crazy, no way. And I just thought of him as like a bitter old man. And so now I understand more where he's coming from. Like, if, if you want to do work, that drives you passionately. Like sometimes you have to engineer that you have to create that passion because if you're in a work environment and you're turning stuff out and that's not the vibe of the place, like you're going to have to get, get that going on your own. There are plenty of jobs a year through the studio that I feel very passionately about and very proud of and would say like, they give me that fulfillment, you know, that some people just don't get from their work. So, so for me, I don't feel like I have to step out of myself and do something else, but a lot of people don't have that opportunity. So doing something on your own is a chance to sharpen skills and you know, Speaker 2 00:05:39 The new doors. Well, to bring it back, I mean, you made me remember you brought up a memory I had early on and get PR where it was this sort of demoralized feeling I got after we got feedback from a client and they took this thing I was so into. And it just made it, what I felt was just bad decision. Right. And I remember just feeling, and I had a moment where I was just like, okay, I need to have a separate practice from commercial art. If I'm trying to get everything I need out of commercial art as a creative person from these jobs, I'm gonna, I'm gonna suffer. Right. That's a recipe. And I share this with my students a lot because it's, that's not the point. Right. And yes, sometimes they align and sometimes you can get everything you need from a project, but that's not. Yeah. That did have some, having an area, have a practice, a sketchbook, photography, whatever, you know, something you can do that a client or some external force can come and just say, you need to change this and that it's yours. Right. And to have that, that's a really healthy way. And I think it helps with sustainability for long-term for professor, uh, professional practice. Speaker 0 00:06:52 Right. Well, I, I know that we've already started outlining what, an episode that we're going to do just on feedback, how to process it and work with it and plan for it. And that's a big part of why there are passionate projects. Cause it's nice to not get any fucking feedback like that is, I think the part for young designers coming into the field, especially that they don't realize is going to happen. Like there, they might be used to the critique process at school, but it's still a choice what they decide Speaker 3 00:07:27 To do and not to do Speaker 0 00:07:30 In the world where, when you're commissioned to do something for somebody, you have to address feedback, how you choose to address it, how you work through it is like a whole different thing. But feedback is a daily occurrence from internal, from external, from external, external, from like, even when I was making my notes for that chat for that episode, I was like, oh my God, sometimes you get feedback. And they're like, yeah, I was watching it at home. And my ten-year-old thought XYZ. And you're just like, so now I'm worried about what you're talking him real things. So that like, once you go down that rabbit hole, which that's why you need a passion project where nobody's opinions matter, except for whoever you choose to show with you, that's your choice. And it's your choice. Whether you're going to listen to the feedback or not, or, you know, sometimes people do passion projects with other people so that they can kind of mind meld with them if they like, you know? Yeah, Speaker 2 00:08:29 No I've been doing that recently just, and it's been fun, just these fun colabs where it's just, you know, a friend and other creative friend and it's like, Hey, let's do a mashup. You know, oh, that's a cool design. Let me animate that. It's fun. At this point, I feel like in my career where it's like, I just feel like there's a bit there's opportunities to, uh, to be a Phoenix and to kind of get fresh eyes. Right. And to kind of shed some of the bitterness, the jadedness and all the gears where it's like, yeah, yeah. Whatever. And to be like, oh wow, this is fun. I'm excited to do a thing again, Speaker 3 00:09:04 Reconnects you to what you Speaker 0 00:09:06 Fell in love with about the craft of, yeah. Okay. About why somebody would want to do a passion project. Like why for professionals, why do they matter basically, or a professional Speaker 2 00:09:26 Who's sort of at maybe a plateau, right. They've got a gig and you're, you're really, maybe you've reached the limit of that, that fit. Right. And, and you want to go to the next level, you want to level up, but you're not getting interviews. Right. You're not getting any movement with your current portfolio. What do you do? Right. Do a passion project, do something you're excited about share that post it, send it around to your professional network contacts, see if that can create some movement, create new opportunities. You know? So I think that's, that's a very practical application of a passionate project for a pro. The other side of it from, it would be yes. Sustainability, which we've talked about, whereas like, okay, I need to do a thing where it's just mine and it's just going to create other possibilities. But even like, you know, I got into doing some passion projects about a year ago with the all the black lives matter protests and that kind of, um, just making work for, in the vein of social justice and what I call protest gifts that kind of fired something. And it wasn't something I really expected. It just sort of, you know, I saw all this stuff happening. I saw my students posting stuff. I made some things and it just ignited something in me that I forgot Speaker 4 00:10:47 Was right. Well, and it resonated Speaker 0 00:10:50 With people you knew cause they got passed around and you got a couple of gigs from Speaker 4 00:10:53 It. That's right. Right. Yeah. And so Speaker 2 00:10:55 Sometimes that can, you know, passion can, and instead idea, it's like, do the kind of work you love share that. And hopefully that'll generate more opportunities for the kind of work to get paid for the kind of work you want to do. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:11:10 A million percent, a million percent. Yeah. For professionals so much for me like where I'm fueled up is not necessarily being behind the computer all the time. So I like doing stuff by hand. I like actually making physical things. So there's a different kind of, you know, illustration and art and making and knitting and making practical things. Um, also traveling and seeing the world and being out in the fresh air. I love that. So when, when I shifted into like a home zone, I like to move off the computer. Speaker 2 00:11:50 And what about for the studio? Another really, you know, passion projects for studio Y Speaker 3 00:11:58 And maybe that's, and Speaker 0 00:12:00 Maybe that's why I don't really feel the need to do them personally because they're, I know important for me through the studio. So every couple of years we take on like a conference, main title or a no budget, low budget thing that is gonna like, just fuel us, like where we could do whatever we want. And if we do have a client they're more of like an observer. Most of that time, the time that work is completely unpaid. So we inherently Speaker 3 00:12:28 Can do whatever we want right Speaker 0 00:12:30 Now we're doing, um, where we just released the third book cover for star wars thrawn. Now those aren't huge moneymaker. It's like, well, the amount of time we spend on them, those are passion projects. Like we want to do stuff like that. That's out in the world. That's interesting. Cause that is a tangible thing. Like a book cover, you Speaker 2 00:12:51 Know, when I've talked to various studios over the years from kind of the educator's lens of, you know, an observing them and observing some of these passion projects that studios will release and, and then, then talking to them and you know, and invariably, you know, they spend far more money, they spend money making a project. So then I pose that to, to the class. I say, why would, why would this studio spend money to make this project with this, you know, pro bono type of client. Right. And, and it's a good Socratic type of question to get them thinking. And then this idea and we, you know, investments, right. There's investments in one like potential PR. So if you do something it's a chance to flex, right? So this can be like, this is what, these are our capabilities, not that different than that model of the young professional, who wants to make a move somewhere else. It's like let's flex, um, potential accolades, awards, accolades, publicity. Yeah. You can't guarantee it, but that can bring in a lot more business. Then you talked about like the, the idea of, you know, recharging, refueling the studio that people who work in the studio, giving them a chance to, Hey, you can flex. Now you can get excited. And really, and Speaker 0 00:14:09 It is a creative recharge, but people do have to realize like a lot of work goes into those projects. So it's a creative recharge, but it's like a very, very physical labor of love. Like the hours are long, like, cause there's still always a deadline, you know, even, especially for studios and why we like conference main titles is because there is a conference, you know, like it has to go to that and we might have a year to make it, which is about how long people are giving us now. But like, it's got to get done. And I think with any passion project, it's so easy to be passionate at the beginning, but you, you have to finish them. And I, and that's like the advice I'd give to any listener or watcher having on how you're consuming this, um, is that you can't just be a good starter. Like you have to be a strong finisher. Speaker 2 00:15:08 It's like writing a book it's really exciting in the beginning. And then, you know, there's a lot, it's a marathon, it's a serious man. Speaker 0 00:15:17 Would you call design for motion, your book, they Speaker 2 00:15:21 Passion project. Yeah. There's definitely elements of passion in it, for sure. Um, so I would say yes, I would actually probably call it that. I mean, obviously there's other aspects to it, but there's a lot of, there's a lot of the qualities to it that were driven by passion and various kind of capacities. But I would think so. Awesome. I wanted to talk a little bit about education too. Cause we had, you know, when we were first kicking this around you, you asked are, are all, are all student projects, passion projects, you know, and that made me think about it. And after thinking about it, I think that more often than not, I don't think they are necessarily turns Speaker 3 00:16:04 Out no student projects are fashion projects. Speaker 2 00:16:09 Sometimes they can be, I think sometimes they can be. But at the same time, I think there are elements of passion in student work. And if we want to unpack that a little bit, the idea of using passion as like a bread crumb, right, as a trail to entice them to learn, there was this, um, this philosopher named Alfred north Whitehead, right? And he had all these like 19th century British mathematician philosopher dude had all these ideas about education too. He talked about these three phases of education being romance, precision, and generalization, and that there were these cycles and that in this model, the romance would really be heavy in the passion, right? Romance is where you're first introducing students to a topic first day of class would be, Hey, let's look at some examples of stellar motion design, right? Get them go. Whoa, that's amazing. Speaker 2 00:17:03 And then, and the flip side of that is even giving them a little bit of agency. So it's like, you know, first day of after effects, it's like get him in there, show them how to just move some simple shapes around and give them that ability to just do something and get them and give them really low stake exercises so that they don't get a ton of pressure and worried about the outcomes. And it's just like, you know what? Just play. We're going to get into a creative sandbox. I've shown you how to use these tools, go in and mess a mess around, break something, come back with some questions, have fun. If you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong. Right? And, and that's romance. It's getting the cause because the next phase is precision and precision is what's mostly aligned with competency based learning, which would be, can you actually do something? Speaker 2 00:17:53 And precision actually takes a lot of hard work to learn how to do something and after effects and C 4d, and these things are complicated tools and they take time and they, some people are better at software than others. Some people need to work really hard to get software to stick. And if you don't have that romance, if you don't have those seeds of passion to motivate you to actually do the hard work and suffer through the uncertainty until it clicks, if it's just day one, this is after effects. This is a key frame. This is how you do the thing. It's like, why am I here? Why am I care? Third phase generalization, that's the return to romance or the return to passion after you have some abilities after you have the, a little confidence and you can actually make something. And that's, that's where an actual passion project can start to happen is you've got to have the skills competency. Speaker 2 00:18:55 Right. And it's cool because it's kind of a cyclical thing. So I'd say on the student level, we definitely try to thread passion throughout sometimes by the end of a four year or whatever, you know, a master, whatever that is towards that capstone senior project thesis project. That's what I think a passion project can happen if they have the competency. And they've also tapped into, you know, there's a certain kind of readiness maturity maybe, or just, you know, what is it? What's their point of view on the thing. Right? So it doesn't always happen, but it can. And, uh, and I don't know if it necessarily has to. Right. I think it's just part of the process of preparing students. Speaker 0 00:19:37 Yeah. So students can have passion projects, but it's more important that they have a passion for that, what they're doing so that they see a light at the end of the tunnel of learning the competency aspect. So we talked about passion projects for professionals and for students, for studios, we talked, did we talk about passion versus burnout? No, we, we probably should. Speaker 2 00:20:06 I mean, I, I touched on that idea of alienation, right? Burnout is another great word, passion versus burnout, right? So what's, you know, burnout where I'm grinding and grinding and it not getting the refuel, not getting to do anything. That's just mine, even if it's, you know, and, and not to say there's anything wrong with brief driven work and commercial art, because it's important. I get to S I get a whole bunch of needs met as a creative person, creative problem solving get a whole bunch of financial needs met, getting paid, you know, but if I'm not getting that, whatever that thing is that I need, that makes me feel kind of motivated from a more of an emotional visceral kind of artistic place. Right. Right. Then, then the burnout, the burnout kicks in. I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it anymore. I'm just like this thing I love, I don't love it anymore. That's not a good Speaker 4 00:21:01 Feeling, not a great place to be. And Speaker 0 00:21:04 So that's important then to make some time for, for a little passion projects here and there. Speaker 2 00:21:09 I think so, you know, that's, uh, yeah. Yeah. I Speaker 0 00:21:13 Think that's good. Cause that can infuse the work you're doing that. Maybe you're not getting any passion from here and there, like, it can be like, oh, I did this thing. I'm going to do that for that other thing now, you know, so that's good. I mean, like that's also like a mindset thing. Not letting it go too far. If you're like in a place where you shouldn't be for much longer and you just kind of stay, stay there for whatever reasons. I mean, you might be a little bit golden handcuffs trap. You might, the calm you might be in a downturn, like a lot of reasons you might want to and need to stay where you are, but burnout is a real thing. And a little passion project might at least reconnect you as to why you got into this in the first place. Absolutely. Speaker 2 00:21:56 Absolutely. And it's, it's interesting. Cause it's, it's hard to describe, right? You're getting, it's, they're more feelings that we've tried to put words to them and they can only go so far. Right. But it really is. It's, it's an experiential thing and, and I've had it multiple times. I've had burnout and I've had revitalization through passion and it's not anything like, you know, looking back, you know, you don't expect either one, you don't know that either one of those things are necessarily coming and when you're in those places, there, they can be a bit Speaker 4 00:22:30 Overall. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:22:33 Overwhelmingly awesome. Where it's just like, whoa, like I have a new lens, you know, and now I'm looking at things differently. Speaker 0 00:22:43 Well, I think, you know, if we're going to talk about passion projects, we have to talk about people that have exemplified that people like people and Pablo, how do you say Pablo's last name? RO chap and even G monk. Like he is very experimental. And those are people that like have really dug in to doing that as, and becoming known for that. And now as a result with NFTs, but blam, blam. Yeah. Why Speaker 2 00:23:18 I interviewed people a couple actually. Yeah. I interviewed people a couple, few years ago for second edition of design promotion textbook. Right. And at that time it was like, you know, a big part of it was, you know, the students loved his work. Right. Everyone was like people, you know, and then we're looking at the everydays and it was, it was really interesting cause like his whole motivation to start that series of every day is came from just wanting to be better at what he was doing. Right. And he was inspired by another guy, Tom Judd, who was one of the founders of animated, right. Who was doing these every day is in posting these everyday drawings. So, you know, people spent a year doing drawings every day to try to just become better and posted them matter if, and he's pretty, uh, blunt and self-deprecating right. Speaker 2 00:24:04 And would just sort of call his work what it was, if it wasn't good. And just, and then he did a whole nother year of just photos and then another year of illustrator and then another year see 4d. And then at some point C4 D became the thing, right. That he just wanted to do. And he had, he was like a web designer and like a studio. And like, I forget maybe Wisconsin or something. And you could see it from that, that dedication and hard work, you know, four or 5, 6, 7 years into those C4 D every day is that all of a sudden, a certain amount of precision and mastery and then generalizations starts to kick it where, you know, by the years, nine, 10, I mean, it's just, you know, start to finish every day a piece. Right. And that, you know, really that idea of just hard work, right. Hard work pays off. I mean, in this case really, I mean, it really paid off, Speaker 0 00:24:57 But like, yeah, there was no expectation. That's what I mean, like when you get into doing something like there can't be this idea that there's going to be this giant thing on the other side of it. And it's most certainly not going to be overnight, his hit his success, his 15 year journey journey. Right. So we just don't know what's going to come of a passion project, but it isn't, if you're feeling the push for it, you should do it. Speaker 2 00:25:27 I want to, I wanted to, I wanted to read this letter that I want to get wrote. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. So I'm a big fan of Kurt Vonnegut, American author. And I came across this letter. He, he, um, there was this high school teachers who asked these different authors, if they would like give some comments to inspire their students. And apparently Kurt Vonnegut was the only one who responded. So who's his letter. He wrote. All right. This was from November 5th, 2006. That's what I got on the date here. All right. Dear Xavier high school, Ms. Lockwood and Mrs. Parent McFeely, Baton Mauer, inconclusive. I thank you for your friendly letters. You sure know how to cheer up a really old geezer, 84 and his sunset years. I don't make public appearances anymore because I now resembled nothing so much as an iguana love their sense of humor. Speaker 2 00:26:19 What I had to say to you, morever would not take long to wit practice. Any art, music, singing, dancing, acting, drawing, painting sculpture, poetry, fiction, essays, report Taj, no matter how well or badly not to get money and fame, but to experience becoming, to find out what's inside you to make your soul grow seriously. I mean, starting right now, do you art and do it for the rest of your lives. Draw a funny or nice picture of Ms. Lockwood and give it to her. Dan's home afterschool and sing in the shower and on and on. Make a face in your mashed potatoes. Pretend your count. Dracula. Here's an assignment for tonight. And I hope Ms. Lockwood will flunk you if you don't do it right. A six line poem about anything but rhymed, no fair tennis without a net. That's fun to have. There's the constraint. Speaker 2 00:27:11 Uh, no fair tennis without a net. Make it as good as you possibly can, but don't tell anybody what you're doing. Don't show it or recite it to anybody, not even your girlfriend or parents or whatever, or Ms. Lockwood, okay. Tear it up into teeny-weeny pieces and discard them into wildly separated trash receptacles. You will find that you have already been gloriously rewarded for your poem. You've experienced becoming learned a lot more about what's inside you and you have made your soul grow. God bless you all Kurt Vonnegut. I love that. Right. I mean, we could have, we could have just read that. And then it'd been like, okay, that's the episode? Pretty much said everything work hard. Do would do it to get to know you do it for yourself to get to know yourself a little better Speaker 0 00:28:01 And you will have reward, but it will. It will be, you know, for you, you know what I mean? It's so beautiful. So beautiful. Thank you Austin, for being so intellectually intellectual. Well, I do my, I do my best. Awesome. Okay. So that's it for passion projects, uh, you know, so make a passion project and share. Yeah. Oh yeah. That'll be fun. Yeah. Let's see your passion project. Yeah. Share them. And then we can critique them in a real time, real talk at Pacific. Right, right. And discard them. Exactly. Okay. Goodbye until next time.