Motion Design Culture

Speaker 0 00:00:01 Hi, I'm Aaron OVS Speaker 1 00:00:03 And I'm Austin Shaw. Speaker 0 00:00:05 This is between the key brands. Speaker 1 00:00:10 Cool. This week, we're gonna be talking about motion, design culture. Speaker 0 00:00:16 Yeah, different kind of companies produce motion, design law of corporations, small boutiques, every company or creative team has a different culture. Um, but culture that culture, I mean, any company has culture, right? Any academic environment has culture, but what actually goes into creating culture is, is the same, but produces different results. So what we wanted to do was to discuss, uh, the nuance differences and how to SL them out when researching or interviewing for a job, because culture should be on your radar as something, as something that's important to you, you know? Absolutely. Speaker 1 00:00:57 Yeah. I mean, it's this conversation that I, I actually enjoy and I make a point to have with students, especially as they're getting closer to their graduation, professional practice type classes, because I don't remember having these discussions when I was a student, you know, it wasn't something I ever thought about. I just kind of blindly went, whatever, whatever doors opened and just sort of arrived at different cultures and having done a lot of freelance, I got to experience a lot of different types of cultures, but it wasn't until a lot of years later that I even started to think about it that, oh, wow, this place is different than this other place. Why, you know, and, and getting down into, you know, every, every place has a culture, Speaker 0 00:01:43 Right. And, you know, as a studio owner, I'm constantly thinking about, Speaker 0 00:01:47 Is this a place I wanna be every day? Is this a place where my team wants to be every day, um, and how to positively impact culture, or if I'm gonna do something that I think might have a negative impact on culture, just kind of, of being transparent and talking about it, or coming up with a path to kind of manage, um, expectations around, you know, all the things. I mean, cuz every single thing goes into culture. You can't just do something and think it's not gonna impact that. So let's uh, let's define culture you're so we love doing these dictionary definitions. So let's, uh, define it. Speaker 1 00:02:28 So culture dictionary definition, the set of shared attitudes, values, goals, and practices that characterizes an institution or organization. Yeah. And so that's our broad stroke dictionary culture. And then we've got a, a, a creative studio culture from a book called studio culture by Adrian, Sean nee a studio is a combination of three things, the physical space, the people who occupy that space. Yeah. And the work they produce, you know? And I think that's interesting. Oh, I love that. Yeah, because these days, right. Even the first one, the physical space, I mean, we can talk about that in historically in moving forward. But over the last year, this idea of space, the remote space is just as important in defining a culture too. Right. Whether you're using slack, zoom, whatever Hangouts teams. Speaker 0 00:03:22 Yeah. Sense. I mean, people talk about sense the long term, like how is this gonna change the industry long term? And I think this is the one thing that we had, um, that impacted the studio before was the fact that we were all to together. Yes. They're freelancers. Yes. Some stuff is gonna be done remote. Yes. There's some exceptions to the rule, but like the core team being together in the physical space and the physical space is a big part of what makes up the culture. It's like the three things is yeah. You know, the, one of the three things is the physical space that we all occupy together. So when you take that away from it, we're all doing the best we can. But there is that, that one thing missing that to your point in slack, in these virtual environments, it's really challenging to keep it going. Absolutely. Speaker 1 00:04:17 I mean, for, for teaching as well in the classroom, right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and I've, I've thought about how, you know, during quarters where I might teach the same section of a class, but multiple times multiple sections. So, uh, two different classes, same exact content, very different experiences, very different cultures. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and, and it is, it's part of that, this ingredient of, you know, the people, the people in that space, but having to do it all remote has been a challenge. And, and it's, I don't think it's an impossible challenge. And certainly there there's some hybrid qualities or fors that we could pull from it. But yeah, we're all missing. We're missing the, uh, the face to face. Speaker 0 00:05:00 We know our big time. What I love about having a beautiful space is you feel like you have to live up to it. You have to like do work appropriate for like this amazing space that you're in. So when we're all like in a spare bedroom and chucked away in the corner of your house, away from your family can have some peace and fucking quiet, you know, so that you could just focus and do some work, not the same and right. You know, uh, keeping that level up in a less inspirational place is, is more challenging. Well, Speaker 1 00:05:37 That makes me think, I mean, it's funny, it's just popped in my head, this, this lecture I recently, uh, checked out from an environmental kind of graphic designer. Right. Cause there is, there's a thresholding it's like when you enter a curated space or a space designed to essentially transport you into a different mindset. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and that, that gets very difficult when everybody, you, you don't have that anymore. Right. Speaker 0 00:06:02 Well, I'm very affected by spaces that I'm in. So like I can't work in an unclean environment like with a cluttered desk. First thing I do is I give myself 10 minutes in the morning when I go any office or just to Speaker 0 00:06:19 Declutter, put everything away, kind of reset back to where everything has its place. But when we focus and create our space, where thinking about one, how we collaborate with each other, how we want our clients to feel about us when they come in the space, as it's a premium place with premium people that do a premium thing. And we have like a real point of view about it, the space says a lot about, about that, you know, has our work on the wall. It has space to be playful and to be, you know, at a table together to have lunch together, it invites people to like, yeah, Speaker 1 00:06:58 Yes, yeah, no, I mean, that's such a big part, you know, and, and you know, I think about some of these zoom lectures and, and studio classes on zoom and Speaker 0 00:07:08 Yeah. Speaker 1 00:07:08 You know, I, as an educator, I'm not really, I don't force anybody to turn their camera on. There's all kinds of privacy issues. Yeah. So it's, it's not really, I ethical to make someone turn their com camera on, but I, I invite everyone to as much as they can because I let, and I let 'em know that I like to see them. I like to be able to connect with them. I like to be able to make eye contact, even if it is through zoom, just so we know that like I'm making a connection with them and it it's, it can be challenging. You know, it, it's hard for sure. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:07:43 I think like the key of listing out all these things is ultimately to get to this point of don't assume, because something might be more corporate, it's gonna have less culture and don't assume because something is boutiquey and producing amazing work that they're gonna have a great culture. You, you have to look at the nuances and that's kind of what we're gonna break down here, cuz with, with going super corporate, you're getting a lot from a culture perspective, but you're losing a lot. And then on the other side, on the boutique side, you're, you're losing a, a lot that you would get from the corporate called and then there's of course the Speaker 1 00:08:22 Collins Speaker 0 00:08:23 In between. So yes. So let's like bang through. So, you know, it used to be like for motion design, you went to like a company that did motion design, but now motion design is a part of just, I would say everyday graphic design. Right. Speaker 1 00:08:37 So, so everyday right. Creative teams that would exist in any corporation, any brand or organization is gonna have some Marion degrees of motion design. Yeah. It's they might have a really robust team or they might have just one or two Speaker 0 00:08:51 Staff orga. Um, and like, we've actually been noticing a lot of this cuz we do CKI labs and we'll get people that are like, he's, you know, one guy at this, uh, real estate company that does all the motion design, they're doing all the social and putting things together and doing slideshows and you know, they need a motion designer and God years ago like that wasn't a thing. They just had designers, Speaker 1 00:09:19 Uh, design. Well, what you, yeah. I mean, what, you just brought up that idea that, you know, and I thought about this years ago, I'm like, I wonder when it'll be that motion design or is like graphic design where you can kind of do this anywhere, you know, cuz you could think about it like, all right. I was in New York in the two thousands and that you could work there or you could BA you could work in LA and then there were a couple pockets. There were some Chicago, some Seattle, but that's kind it. Yeah. Now it's like, yeah, you can, you can find motion design positions Speaker 0 00:09:51 Anywhere Speaker 1 00:09:51 The same way. Yes. Yeah. It's become like graphic design. Speaker 0 00:09:54 Yeah. Anywhere 'em with like a social media presence of any kind should have a motion designer. If they have a designer on staff, it should be a motion designer on staff. Okay. So corporations, companies, brands as big as apple, Microsoft, Uber, Nike Proctor, and gamble best buy has a great internal department. Uh, we talk about he's at cash app. You would never think like if I just said somebody's at cash app working, you'd be like, oh my God, what is that about? Well, they do amazing work there. Speaker 1 00:10:26 Yeah. Super fun. Branding, you know, having talked to him, it sounds like one of these ideal types of cultures where you've got some of the affordance is of big tech and some of the affordances of, of a boutique, the best qualities of a boutique culture. Speaker 0 00:10:43 Yeah. So cool. There's also motion design companies boutiques right there. And those range from, you know, two man bands, three man bands to 10 to like 30, 40, which I would call midsize and then large, large scale ones like the mill and you know, then certain things like method and frame store have departments that handle buck Speaker 1 00:11:07 Buck's Speaker 0 00:11:08 Got like hundreds now. Yeah. Yeah. They're a large Company. I don't, I don't know if that's, it might still be considered a small business from the, the it from the government's perspective, but Speaker 1 00:11:19 Right. But from the motion to Speaker 0 00:11:22 Community they're large. Yeah. Yeah. Large, large. Okay. But then you have these big companies that have created departments inside that have, you know, and so each one has a culture and it's how all of that kind of works together. <laugh> that, uh, creates the culture of that company or studio Speaker 1 00:11:45 Funny. What was I gonna say? Oh yeah. I've been listening to the way of Zen, Alan Watts <laugh> and Speaker 0 00:11:52 The way of Zen, Speaker 1 00:11:53 The way of Zen, Alan Watts. And um, I love listening to Alan Watts, his different lectures and stuff too, cuz he's just very entertaining and good ideas and all that. But this idea that it's, there's this interrelationship, right. That it's like in that a culture like it's made up of those, the people it's always in flock. Yeah. Right. It's always changing. Right. It's not gonna ever be, there is no perfect. There's no fixed. Right. But you are part of it, right? Yeah. When a person, when you go, when you go to a job, you are a part of that culture. Yes. And, and to, to a certain degree, you can influence that culture. Right. You might have a lot of agency, you might only have a little bit, but part of it is. And I think part of it is, is to recognize like what's the vibe, what's the vibe of the place, you know? And, and we have another kind of idea, like ideally we all wanna be part of a sustainable culture. Mm-hmm <affirmative> um, the opposite of that toxic, toxic toxicity, you know? And, and yeah. You know, what, what do those look like? Right. And, and what are maybe some of the attributes of, of both and how, how can you as an individual maybe shape that and if not, Speaker 0 00:13:06 Should you not be there? Move? Yeah. I think that's like really, I think a thing to say is if you are not happy in a place, you have to leave you. And it doesn't mean like just, I'm never advocating for somebody if I can just quit their job. But like at a certain point you have to take ownership over your own career and realize that you can influence it. So build your real, get out, take your time, get out, you know, like that is the only way forward. If you realize like, Hey, actually this environment is toxic. There are some qualities that I'm never gonna be able to influence in my position of power or lack of power. Like you gotta move on because staying in a toxic environment makes you toxic. It does. I've seen it like change people and their whole ad, their whole career, you know, it's really unfortunate. So, well, let's talk about what makes a toxic environment, like what are the watchouts? So, so Speaker 1 00:14:05 What are, what are some of the big ones for, you assume for me, I'd say, well, let's start with you. <laugh> Speaker 0 00:14:10 Okay. So I Speaker 1 00:14:11 Think Speaker 0 00:14:12 First things first, like other reasons, any place that as like discriminatory practices and I mean, we, we have to acknowledge that Mo a lot of the artists slash most of the artists are like white guys in motion design. That's historically what's happened. So it's gonna take a little while for that to change. Yeah. And we're all talking about, Speaker 1 00:14:33 I mean, I've had students, I've had black students come up to me and say, where are the black designers designers. Speaker 0 00:14:38 Right. Speaker 1 00:14:38 And, and I have Speaker 0 00:14:39 Fair question. Speaker 1 00:14:40 I very fair question. You know, and, and yeah, it's, it's nice. I mean, I'm thinking back about 10 years now and I'm remembering, it's changed my answer being like, well, hopefully you guys are gonna help change that. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:14:51 Change. Speaker 1 00:14:52 And they ha I mean, it's, it's happening. And, and it's nice to see that. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:14:57 The hard thing is, is when you look at like, who's applying for jobs, like you realize, like you have to create some outreach and to do that, it's more than one person. So you gotta kind of take, not just, you gotta make a part of the culture to create change right. In the industry. So I would say like, take a look around. It's not gonna be perfect right away. But like, if you wind up at a place and you feel the other is going on and like have some like underlying discrimination, you get, you gotta jump, you know, you gotta realize that. That's Speaker 1 00:15:34 What about, I was gonna ask for you, what about like sexism? Has that been something? Oh Speaker 0 00:15:39 Yeah. I mean experienced like a hundred percent <laugh> I don't wanna like a hundred percent rat out, like places I've worked before, cuz they're still around some of them, but, um, there was definitely a paradigm of sexism there and I, I don't necessarily know that it was a hundred percent, um, there, I don't know that there was a self-awareness about it, right. Speaker 1 00:16:03 More of an implicit Speaker 0 00:16:04 Bias. Yeah. I, so yeah, that's the word for implicit bias. But also like when I became aware of it, I was like, oh, my was like surprised by it, disappointed about it. And then I left <laugh> cause that's you can't change that other is going on. You can't see like your peers doing okay. Or less work than you less than. And seeing them getting promoted and making choices much like you can't unsee them. Right. Like at a certain point, like it's your turn. And if it's not your turn, like you gotta go and make it your turn somewhere else. But I think another one is unrealistic expectations for turnaround clients, producers, maybe don't come up to you and say, how long is this gonna take to do they just agree to five? O'clock the end of the day. And you're Speaker 1 00:16:55 Like poor, poor communication. Speaker 0 00:16:57 Yeah. Or no communication. Not really asking you what it's gonna be. You know? Speaker 1 00:17:02 So it's like five alarm fires every, all the Speaker 0 00:17:05 Time. That's what ultimately it winds up becoming where every day you're, it's an emergency and you're in Def con five or one depending. Speaker 1 00:17:13 Yeah. And that's stressful, you know, that's so fun. Yeah. I mean, that happens. Things happen, but if that's the regular, uh, that's not a fun place to work. Speaker 0 00:17:21 Mm-hmm mm-hmm okay. Another one that we wrote down is burnout, Speaker 1 00:17:26 So, oh yeah. <laugh>, Speaker 0 00:17:28 That's a Speaker 1 00:17:29 Big one. I can talk about burnout Speaker 0 00:17:30 Cause Boston's burned out. Speaker 1 00:17:33 Yeah. Yeah. Burn out couple, couple, few times. Um, and it's, it's uh, I think that a culture that, I mean, it's sort of, some of that can be that five alarm fire persistence. Yeah. Some of it is just that grind, you know? And, and I know for me, some of this is personality too, but I know for me, I'm a person who can, I like working. I like making things. Right. I like producing and, and getting in that flow, but I've also gone too far. Right. And, and a lot of there, there are studios that don't necessarily, I think this was big in the two thousands. Right. Nobody was really thinking about this. Nobody was thinking about sustainability. Everyone was just cranking working and crying, cranking and, and so it can be, uh, well, it can be unhealthy. You can kind of hit a point where you're, you're not kind of lose, you lose the passion, right? Speaker 0 00:18:29 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So burnout is an interesting thing, cuz I think that's a two way street. I think that for me, I mean I'm a studio owner, so I want to not burn out my people, but I also right. Have high expectations. So it's on my team, um, of producers to kind of be keeping an eye. There are times where it happens and we get bogged down and then we just try and like really carve out time for people on an individual basis. But as I was saying in regards to burnout, it's not only on the company, like you were saying, it's on yourself to know where you're at and to communicate it and to not wait until you're a total mess to communicate it. Speaker 1 00:19:15 And if you've communicated that and you're getting not, no nurturing in return from that, that toxic, you're at a sweat shop, you're Speaker 0 00:19:24 At a sweat shop. Speaker 1 00:19:24 Yeah. You need to bounce. Speaker 0 00:19:25 Yep. So the that's all the toxic stuff. Let's talk about what makes a company sustainable? Speaker 1 00:19:35 Why not? Speaker 0 00:19:36 Or the company culture to be, make it more Speaker 1 00:19:38 Sustainable. Yeah. I mean, that makes me think back to like Superfad that was probably one of the first studios mm-hmm <affirmative> that I worked at where it seemed like there were some healthy work life balance, like in play, sit in the studio culture that, you know, it was okay to punch out if your work was done at a reasonable time. Mm-hmm like, there wasn't this, you didn't feel weird leaving at a normal time. <laugh> right. Sure. Um, you know, I think, you know, so sustainability, right? Allowing for, for growth for fulfill moment where you feel like you wanna be there and that you can continue being there. You can picture this as you know, it's not a, you know, I'm holding on by the, the skin of my, my teeth here. Right? Speaker 0 00:20:24 Yeah. There's also something from the culture code, that book. Yeah. Vulnerability with trust. So being able to just like share your opinions and being open, like telling people when it's, it's not just having a culture where you, you can go and say, but where anybody feels comfortable saying, Hey, I'm, I'm getting stretched a little thin here. Can you take these easy on me next week? Like having a culture where that's okay is good <laugh> and where you can have conversation about that is good. Um, and that leads to like the sense of community having spaces where people can and eat together and talk and if not just work and you know, Speaker 1 00:21:11 And in terms of collaboration and be able to contribute your ideas without feeling like they're gonna just get shot down right. And get shamed for being that's dumb, right. Like where everyone's trying to make each step of the process better. And I think that even comes back to, to class critiques, right. Building a culture of critiques mm-hmm <affirmative> is, you know, and framing it for students that this is what we're trying to do. We're trying to identify what's working. Maybe what's not what can be improved, ideally that's that's happening in your work, your creative work culture. Speaker 0 00:21:44 Yep. I think, uh, sustainable thing too, is just having real clear HR policies, you know, and, and that includes having regular yearly reviews so that you have an opportunity to touch base without like begging to get on the calendar. Um, right. And years a year goes by actually really fast. So, um, it's a lot to ask for more than that to say like an official review. But I think having a moment where you can sit down and say, how am I doing this is where I wanna improve. This is where I wanna go, where you can just kind of set goal short and long term. And along those lines, having clarity for your reporting structure, I think is really. And who do you take HR issues to when you have, when you're on a job? Like who do you talk to? I think, I don't know. It didn't seem like as much of a thing when we were coming up, but I find now like people like wanna know where they bring, bring things to. Speaker 1 00:22:45 Right, right. Have some certainty. Speaker 0 00:22:48 Yeah. Speaker 1 00:22:49 Who do I talk to? Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:22:50 Who do I talk to about this? Yeah. Along the idea of like vulnerability with trust gets into just the ability to manage your personal obligations without feel fear of recourse. So like that gets into work life balance, being able to say, Hey, I got, like I said, my aunt's coming to, like my aunt's coming to 10 that week quite literally. And I'm gonna wanna clock out at a certain time or be, have some half days off here or there, and kind of maybe front load. So I could spend some time with her. Like it's really important that I'd be able to one do that. And then two be able to offload some of my shit to other people. The thing is, we're all gonna do that for a, each other. So you can't fear any recourse to ha wanting to have a life or to be going through a medical thing and just needing time to take care of yourself, you know, you've gotta be able to be comfortable doing Speaker 1 00:23:44 That. So support, nurturing, support. Yeah. Community. I was curious. So is there, you know, as, is, are there discussions about sustainability that you all have and what are those like? Speaker 0 00:23:56 Yeah. <laugh> we do have those conversations. We have them often you have to have them. They're uncomfortable conversation is to have, because I find myself saying back in the day, I didn't get any of this shit, But I think like the truth is like, when you take a step back, we have to like get past that. It's like the idea of free college just cuz I paid for college doesn't mean that, that was the way it should be moving forward, you know? Right. Like it's just Speaker 1 00:24:27 Yeah. Yeah. You know, I mean it's yeah. Speaker 0 00:24:30 Anybody that's Speaker 1 00:24:31 Like education is a right. Speaker 0 00:24:33 Yes. Is right. Healthcare is a right. But Speaker 1 00:24:35 That gets into the culture of our, of a nation. Right? What do we, what, what values do we want to invest in as a nation, but that's a whole nother topic. Well, Speaker 0 00:24:44 I mean, and that's to like something that we are not experts on, but it gets into that idea though, like that, like I'm not gonna be upset that now college is free for everybody because I paid for my that's just not where I'm at. And so like if I, if I take, well, what Speaker 1 00:25:04 Does that say about a culture? Right? What say about a national culture culture. Speaker 0 00:25:07 Right. Like I Say that I pay, it's like, okay, take it to a Speaker 1 00:25:12 No, but I mean, what is, what is the, if we were to do that, right. I mean, it would, it means that our culture values it. Right, right. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, Speaker 0 00:25:20 Yeah. As like I have my immediate reaction and then we talk about how, how well, how should it be if without these preconceived, this is how it was or historically blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. What, what do we want that to look like here? Okay. So a couple more things about, um, a place that makes it sustainable, I think is a accessibility to leadership. Being able to like actually communicate with the uppity ups. Right. And have a, the, Speaker 1 00:25:49 The upper ups, Speaker 0 00:25:51 The uppity ups. Yeah. I think honestly saying thank you. Like when somebody works really hard to say, Hey, I just really wanted to say, thank you. Yeah. Like your work was instrumental in it being a success. And I really appreciate that. That's like, that is usually more important than like paying somebody at little Speaker 1 00:26:10 Overtime. Absolutely. Which brings us to like the super important point. What I hear from all the time, all the time from guests who come to speak to students is this idea of just being a good person, being a nice person. Right. That, that goes so far. That that actually for at least a sustainability point of view goes further than just raw talent. Right. Oh totally. Being a nice person. Being someone who can contribute in a positive way to the team, which essentially is the culture. Yeah. Is, is priceless. Speaker 0 00:26:41 Yeah. Everybody says it don't be a Dick. Don't be a Dick. Be a good person, be reliable, be collaborative, be open to feedback, show up to work, you know, like somebody comes in and then have some kind of a monster and you're like, oh yeah, you're gonna lose Speaker 1 00:27:00 Everything. Everything's on eggshells. It it's like, I don't wanna work where I'm distress. Like yeah. You know, you're stressed all the time. You feel Speaker 0 00:27:07 Like, oh my God. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:27:09 Someone's about to explode. Yeah. Yeah. And fun and like fun. Speaker 0 00:27:13 Yeah, exactly. You and like work isn't about like sunshine and rainbows all the time. It is work. It is productive. It Speaker 1 00:27:20 Is work. You feel, you wanna feel good while you're doing it. You wanna feel like, yeah, Speaker 0 00:27:25 Like what you're doing matters. Like Speaker 1 00:27:27 I wanna, and that you wanna, and Speaker 0 00:27:28 You wanna be there. And that you're making things that are important and they are important. They're important to our clients and to like commerce and all of the things like there's a reason people are paying for this work. So, so I think that that is like a really lovely place to end is like culture is both, all three things. It is place people and the work you create. So you are a big part of the culture of wherever you are, whether it's at a company or in an academic program. So yeah. So don't be a Dick. Speaker 1 00:28:05 Don't Speaker 0 00:28:05 Do it. Don't do it. <laugh> okay. Um, do we have any announcements or anything? Maybe we Speaker 1 00:28:13 Hear about hear some stories, hear some culture stories. Speaker 0 00:28:16 Yeah. It would be really great to get some feedback on this. You don't have to rat out specific places. That's not like the goal of this, the goal to really have culture be part of the conversation. And I guess that's it. I've been fun. Chatting Austin about culture. Speaker 1 00:28:32 Yeah. <laugh> until next time until Speaker 0 00:28:35 Next time.