Producers

Speaker 0 00:00:01 Hi, I'm Erin Swarovski and I'm Austin to Shaw. This is between the key ribs. Speaker 1 00:00:10 We're going to talk about producers, why we need them and why they are the indispensable glued to every project. Speaker 0 00:00:18 Very well said, Austin. Speaker 2 00:00:21 He did a good job annunciating. All right. Welcome back audience Speaker 1 00:00:25 To this episode on producers. Why do we need them? Why don't I Speaker 3 00:00:30 Do that? Cause where creatives, you know, I'm a senior teacher, so I'm not going to hold you personally responsible for this. But I find that when people come into the industry, there seems to be not even awareness that a producer is a thing that somebody is responsible for managing the project and is a liaison with the client. I think that, well, I actually wonder what, you know, like I am going to hold you, Speaker 4 00:01:03 But I wonder like, no, it's a good, it's fair. It's a fair, Speaker 3 00:01:06 I almost wonder if they think they're going to be the ones communicating directly with the client or something like that. But I, what I do know is that producers play an integral role in the success of, Speaker 1 00:01:20 I will say this, that there's a lot of hustle. Just, just trying to get them educated as like, what is a motion designer? What is this like a designer and what are those like art directing skills and then what are your animation skills? And then let's try to get them working together. And it's that same idea of like, when we were kicking around and talking about passion projects, that sometimes there are eight ready for passing projects. By the time they're seniors. Sometimes they're not probably more often than not, but I will say this, like this is, I encourage the students to do group projects. And I tell them, I say, look, I've seen successful group projects. I've seen them fall apart. Invariably, they fall apart when there's no producer or the group, isn't assuming the producers roles in terms of coordination. Yeah. Somebody is not stepping Speaker 3 00:02:08 Up and doing that role of like, okay, we're all going to meet here on this day. Um, we're going to create a Google doc. I'll start the outline. Everybody has got to pop in and filled their part, like assigning roles to fill out that like, to me is the person that like not only loves the craft of what we do, but they're like capable of like driving the bus. Speaker 1 00:02:28 Right. Right. Which is good. So let's, let's dive in. I mean, and let's, let's hear what, what is a producer maybe just broad stroke. I mean, yeah. We'll talk about emotion, but what is a producer in the creative industries? Right? Speaker 3 00:02:41 This is a really good question. And it could take me two hours to describe all of the things that producers are and do because you have agency, producers, uh, you have film and television producers, and those roles are very, very different. A motion design studios, producers, and that's what I'm going to focus on. And even within that construct, it gets more granular. Speaker 1 00:03:08 And would you say that there are some commonalities in all creative producers? Because I think there probably are, but what do you think? I mean, Speaker 3 00:03:17 There's a lot of personality traits for sure. Organization scheduling, managing money, whether you're going out and seeking financing as like a film producer would, or just managing a budget, like, you know, a normal producer would do on the show. So there's like a, a bunch of different ways of doing that at a motion design studio, you'll typically find an executive producer and an executive producer is like the top, top dog producer. They are everybody kind of reports to them. They kind of go between external facing and internal facing a lot. They are very heavily involved in sales. So they're working with either the sales team, but they're constantly getting requests for reels. And Hey, we have this project coming up. Are you guys available? Like, there's a lot of top level work going on. A lot of times they do bids themselves, but sometimes they ask their producers to do, to help them with bidding. Speaker 1 00:04:21 The, the, the executive producer is a sort of a analogous to the creative director or executive creative director in some ways. Speaker 3 00:04:30 Yes. Yeah. There, there definitely counterparts. I would say it's actually really interesting. I think most of the time you see executive producers owning the studio because it takes that kind of a mindset of like, how do you get work? How do you go instill trust, do all of that kind of foundational work and get work. You need to like the creative counterpart to be able to like deliver on that. But typically the creative is an out there shopping, you know, for work. They're busy, like making all the things. So, so that's why you typically see executive producers, either as partners or as owners of these companies, because they're, they're the ones that get access to work. And that is like the absolute, most fundamental thing, right. The Speaker 1 00:05:20 Life to stay in business. Right. Speaker 3 00:05:23 Yeah. And so after that you have like a head of production. Not every studio has a head of production because you just might not be big enough to warrant it, but those people are more inward facing. They're more organizing all the producers and saying, you're on this, you're on that. So so-and-so is coming up, like, they're going to like kind of steal, steer the ship. If you're a studio like the moon, or you have dozens of employees and multiple offices, you definitely have a head of production because there's no way an executive producer could do the external and the internal facing. You want to break that apart. Then you have your producers. Now a producer in a motion graphics company is somebody that runs the job. They communicate with the client on a day in and day out basis. Usually they're even getting creative feedback via email or a phone call from another producer. So it's like a creative talks to a producer. It gives notes, they talk to our producer, then they take the notes to us and we're like, oh, okay. They're the interface. Speaker 1 00:06:27 They're the primary interface on a day to day logistics. Speaker 3 00:06:31 Yeah. Yeah. So you have to have somebody that not only understands big picture what's going on, but technically what some of those notes might take so that they don't make commitments like, oh, sure. We can have that to you in two hours. Or so then they come over and say, okay, we need this in two hours. And the artist is like, no way, man. So we'll get into that later. But those producers are essentially like project managers. They might have one large projects or five small projects or a large and two small, but that's for them and the head of production and executive producer to work out. Um, but they do seriously. Like everything goes through the producer. So ultimately if you need to have a call creative to creative, you know, um, uh, on the project, they'll set that up. They'll say, Hey, this is too much for an email. Speaker 3 00:07:16 Let's get on the phone within that. There are specializations. Sometimes you have visual effects users. Sometimes you have animation producers, which is like motion design, and then you have post producers. So within that, it gets, it gets complicated, but VFX was like, you know, compositing and really understanding, you know, live action and how it all kind of comes together and really understand Lutz and just all of that kind of nuance and color spacing and things like that. Animation producers really understands after effects or whatever software your team uses to, to make things and can explain like the nuance of that to the client. Like if you're animating on the ones, you know what I mean? Like they can kind of, Speaker 4 00:08:11 They can, yeah. Speaker 3 00:08:12 They can like interpret to the client like, Speaker 1 00:08:16 Ah, so like interface slash interpreter slash translator, Speaker 3 00:08:22 All the things, and then post producers. This is like a term that could encompass all of it. But those people typically understand editorial really well. And so that is a whole other, it relates to motion design, of course, but it encompasses like getting audio files and finishing and a lot of other aspects as well. Speaker 1 00:08:44 Wait, what about line producer? Did we talk about line producer? Speaker 3 00:08:47 So at my studio and at other motion design studios live action is a thing is a real thing. We do a couple shoots a at least some big where, you know, it's a couple of days out in the world, you know, casting the whole kitten caboodle. Speaker 4 00:09:03 And sometimes it's just toss this cuff. Speaker 3 00:09:05 I'm going to make this couple. Yeah, look really beautiful. And so the line producers are specialized people that we bring in to produce this shoot. So they know who the DP is, are who the grips are. They negotiate the rates, they do everything. They make sure we have the right insurance. They boom, they build the shootout. We need a stunt driver. They're finding a stunt driver. If you need a cat that can do a specific sweaty thing, they can find that it's crazy. But those people are wine producers of above all producers are just like the most make it work. People I've ever seen. Speaker 1 00:09:44 How about associate or junior producers? Speaker 3 00:09:47 This a good question. Cause like there's really no distinction necessarily in the responsibility you would give a junior producer versus a producer versus a senior producer. What makes that distinguish is years served. So if I'm also like, as a boss or as an executive producer, I would never assign a project out of the scope of what I would feel comfortable giving that person based on their experience. Right. So if, if you're a young producer, I'm going to put you on jobs that I believe I know you can handle that might push you a little bit, but you know, maybe it's, it's just a little bit of motion graphics and, and a little bit of editorial so that I'm not kind of putting you in over your head and I'm there, I'm there for you. Whereas if you have a senior producer, you're going to Chuck everything at them and just know that it's going to come back now, the younger producer might not realize that they're being kind of slow, rolls into the process they're just achieving and doing well. And you want them to feel that and to be successful on their jobs. Because like, if they're unsuccessful on your jobs, your client's going to be irate, you know, like they have to do a good job. So, so really the difference between a junior and a regular and a senior producer is experience. Speaker 1 00:11:10 I mean, it's interesting, as you're talking, I'm thinking about creative and production and it is, it's a synergy. It is, there's a weaving, you know, of the two aspects and of the people who, who serve those roles. Right. And it really, yeah. I remember, you know, talent coordinators being kind of the person who is reaching out and kind of, and seeing if I'm available as a freelancer, right. And then getting to know those talent coordinators and then eventually I'd see them get promoted to junior producer and eventually producer and on and on. So would you say that's still a entry-level yeah. Speaker 3 00:11:50 So that's like, where do producers come from? Like we started with like, Hey, you don't train producers, Austin, what's going on with that. Right. But it's not really your fault. You're training artists. You know what I mean? But, but if there are no like programs out there saying like, Hey, you could be a producer, not just at an agency or at a film studio, but you could be a producer at a motion design company or a visual effects company or something like that be in the business, but just in this different kind of avenue of it, we have to find our producers in a very roundabout way. So I think having some kind of communications background is good. So maybe do you wind up at an advertising agency or a marketing communications company or, you know, internal at a brand and you learn about motion graphics that way you kind of slowly find your path. Otherwise it's just somebody that's attracted to creative to create an industry that wants to find a job in the arts. And they come in as like assistant PA Speaker 5 00:12:58 Right. Runner a run, right. Speaker 3 00:13:01 Answering the phone reception was kind of random stuff or assistance with people. And they kind of find their way in that way and they quickly catch on and they start doing like this critical thinking thing where we see them kind of predicting things and taking an interest in who the different artists are and what exactly they're doing. And then they move into like a coordinator role where maybe they're scheduling freelancers and kind of keeping an eye on what's going on in the industry and like, or managing like the, you know, not just the freelancers that we have, but like the job in Korea is, and all of that stuff, like when we go to SCAD and when we do university reach outs, kind of looking for talent that way with us and just kind of being like, Hey, what about that person that you met four months ago? You know? And just keeping us like honest about that stuff. And then they, they, those people naturally turn into Speaker 1 00:13:56 What about art? Like people were training to be designers, artists, designers, who then fall into producing. Do you find, have you experienced that? Yeah. Speaker 3 00:14:06 And I wish it would happen more because we do run into this kind of person who shows aptitude in many ways in either design and editorial and visual effects and 3d, but they're just not getting there. You know what I mean? And that might that's okay. Like not everybody has to be like an, a plus level designer in the world, like, but that's what we're looking for as a studio. So when I see somebody that has like a total love for what we do a complete understanding of the process, they're engaged with the other artists around typically they're the ones like organizing the company outing or, yeah. They just have more attitude for the process than the actual craft itself. And I just want to be like, you need to switch gears and, and do the other side of it. But it's very hard to tell somebody that really wants to be an artist that they should stop pursuing them. Right. So you got to let them get there. You got to let them get there on their own. And, and honestly, it could be me as a creative director or the team, like maybe we're not like the right fit to get them to that place. Or maybe we're not doing the right work stylistically that is pushing them in that, you know, in that direction. So that could be a two, but you do see people and you're just like, not like, go Speaker 4 00:15:42 Your dream. This is about fat. Right. This other Speaker 3 00:15:46 Thing is really hard to do as well. And it's interesting because yeah, because, and the thing that's hard though, from a convincing perspective is when a job goes really, really well, it's like really quiet as far as the producer goes, like the creatives get all the accolades and when a job goes to shit, it's always Speaker 1 00:16:10 Been, it's like typography, it's like good type does its job. It communicates. And most people don't even notice that it's inset, whereas bad type. Everybody's like, that's weird. Right, right. Unspoken. Yeah. So Speaker 3 00:16:25 Like total unspoken heroes. But then if you look at the film industry, who's up there accepting the best picture award, the producer. Speaker 1 00:16:35 Yeah. Well, our industry's funny. It's like, we're, we, we borrow from so many other industries and our, like our foundations come from different places. So we're still figuring it out, I think. Yeah. Right. Speaker 3 00:16:51 So Austin, I have a question for you. What are your attributes for your favorite producers that you've worked with? People Speaker 1 00:16:58 Who can just communicate really clearly what they need, who are responsive. Right. And that's another thing I've learned a lot like to be, especially, I've been doing the remote thing we've talked about for a long time, you know? So when somebody sends me something it's received a quick confirmation of receipt, email is huge. And I really appreciate when my producer, counterpart, who I'm sending files to lets me know they've received. Great, thank you received. Or if I have a question, you know, you know, cause it's, there's always the hurry up and wait adage, right. Where it's just like, we need the thing, we need the thing. And I'm like, well, that's, I appreciate that, but I can't give you the thing, unless I have this piece of information, right. It's like, here's that like, need to know what usually some special specifications and technical spec that I need confirmation on before I can actually deliver what they need. So people who are going to be quick to respond, or if they don't know that they're going to let me know that, Hey, I'm researching this, I'm finding this out. I'll let you know ASAP. So someone who's, who's quick to respond because, um, you know, as a, as a professional, I do my best to be as responsible as possible for a project for its production. And, and I, I respect when I, that is being kind yeah, that, that is reciprocated. And, uh, what else, what else? I mean, I can, what else do I like? Speaker 3 00:18:31 I like when they can say no. Nope. Yeah, yeah. Speaker 1 00:18:34 Yeah. Why don't you tell me some of your, your favorite attributes. Speaker 3 00:18:39 So I like a producer that can say no, you know, cause a lot of times we'll get a request that is like a hard, no way like that was a bid or we're so far down the process that, that can't possibly be a note right now, you know? So there's gotta be a way to say no and have that not hate you. Right. So that, that's the experience that you get over five years, that nuance experience, where you develop a style of doing something of communicating where you can say no, and it's not the worst thing in the world. It's real. So really also important that the producer see the big picture. Well, I Speaker 1 00:19:25 Was going to say about the saying no, I mean, and then, uh, boundaries, right? It's just being able to be clear, respect, enforce boundaries in a sense, protecting your team. I mean, that to me is like PR protects the team. You know, somebody who's going to basically guardian of the team, but anyway, big picture. Yeah. Speaker 3 00:19:46 Big picture, which allows them to then be proactive. You know, like if you see the big picture, you can kind of get a sense for what's going to happen with weekends. With if some artists isn't working out on a job, if they're getting a sense of like hesitation on the side of the client where they're like, okay, like let's take a step back in the room, the reading the room Speaker 1 00:20:12 And seeing the potential pitfalls that are ahead. Mm Speaker 3 00:20:17 Yeah, exactly. We talked about this, but developing a close relationship with their creatively, you know, that the creative is trusting has a lot of trust in them to communicate on behalf of the project. Um, but that, you know, that, that trust goes both ways. So like when they're on the phone with, uh, with a client and they're going over notes or noodles that before they commit to anything that they're going to come back to the creative director and their team and say, Hey, that's what they're thinking this like, how long realistically do we think this is going to take, Speaker 4 00:20:52 This is not Speaker 1 00:20:53 Protocol that brings up this idea of like the, the producers sorta maintains this, the external perception versus the internal reality. Right. And, and is able to navigate that and make sure everything stays smooth. That seems really important. Speaker 3 00:21:11 Yeah. And then like, if they're the person that's calm, when things are going to arrive, they have to like, say like, okay, okay. Yeah, this is a crazy note, but we're going to take a minute and we're going to talk about it, you know, and we're going to break apart where it's coming from and we're going to say no, but we're going to tell them what we can do and that person, and, and, and they're not going to dictate necessarily to us when they're going to get it, but we're going to tell them like what we can do when and how so we're going to lay out the roadmap. And we can only do that if we keep a calm and keep things together and then present that back to the client, like professionally assuredly and confidently say like, we heard you, this is your feedback. We cannot address it the way you're expecting this is how we can do it. And when you will see that in the process that clients need. Yeah. That's another Speaker 1 00:22:06 Type of creative problem solving on the production level. Right. Right. Yeah. And they care about the creative, Speaker 3 00:22:14 You know, they care about the creative to them. It's not transactional. It is. They do want the product to not just be turned out and you know, okay, we're done, you know, it's they care, turn into Speaker 1 00:22:31 What about, um, so, so say something like scope creep, right. That common. And when you've agreed to do something, and all of a sudden, now the client's asking for additional elements or additional deliverables to the agreed upon scope. So what's, what's an efficient or effective way that a producer can address that in a client for, uh, address that when a client, when that happens. Speaker 3 00:22:57 Okay. So that happens literally every single job, but the only way to protect yourself is to have clarity about what you're giving them for the money. And when, so that has to come into play during the bid process and during the scheduling process. So that there is a paradigm that we're all functioning and moving towards like a very clear list of what they're paying for. If they ask for something that's a slight scope creep, which is a great way of putting it. It's like, okay, like that's not in the, that was not in the mix, but we can get that to you at this point in time. Right? Like you give them one and that, but then say like, if there's anything additional, it's going to be an overage. So let me know as soon as possible so that you can get things cleared, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So you want to give a little, right? Speaker 1 00:23:49 Because it builds, it builds some Goodwill, right? Yeah. Speaker 3 00:23:54 Like you're saying, like, you can't do this every time I pick up the phone and I'm on the call with you. All of a sudden, there's not a nine 16 and a one one, and then now there's a four by five and how there's and now there's, Speaker 1 00:24:07 And then there's all of those things. But without type or with a different logo. Right. Cause all of a sudden it's like, oh, that's easy. Right. You just do that. And it's like, well, no, that's all time. It's all time. And it's all gotta be double-checked and it's all gotta be, make sure it's right. And it's all gotta be uploaded. And it's, and it's, there's that measure between, you know, and also with that Goodwill, I I'm, I always do that, but it's, I always let them know that this is your watch. Yes. Yeah, yeah. I'm letting them know that like, Hey, I'm hooking you up, I'm extending some Goodwill. Right. And then it's like, so what about when we're past the Goodwill, Speaker 3 00:24:49 Then it's a bid. Would you like me to bid that and put a schedule together? Yeah. And that, that's all that's essentially saying, yes, we will do that for you on a new bed, provided that Speaker 1 00:25:06 You can have this provided that you're willing to pay. And to Speaker 3 00:25:12 Honestly, if, if it's a new deliverable or you've exceeded the schedule, you are into a new bid situation period. That is anybody that you're working with should understand that. And any time that you do a bid and a schedule for somebody, they should really understand that your bed is based on this time and this deliverable. Yeah. That's I also like when producers have a sense of humor, if they take things really seriously all the time, it gets a little weird. No, because Speaker 1 00:25:46 It's infectious, right. They they're a big effect on the culture and the morale of any project. You're right. Speaker 3 00:25:55 Yeah. They also understand what communication is, the right in that moment. So they know if talking to you is the right way. Let's just start with a conversation here. If you need, if you need space as the creative director, or if like, Hey, this I'm going to send you an email and then we'll talk through the email. Cause it's going to be an outline of the changes. Right. Or, you know, if I'm Mia and where I work from home, they might shoot me a text and say, I really need you right now. You know? And I'm just like cooking pierogi is Speaker 1 00:26:29 Right. So there again, that brings it back to that, that communication. Speaker 3 00:26:34 And then on the client side, like sometimes clients just text all the time, text everything and it's for the producer because they have to then kind of respond in kind, but they have to match back what the, what the client is giving. But they also have to have things documented properly because that's, their job is to have basically everything in writing. I mean, I definitely can also tell you things that I hate about some producers. I don't like producers that just forward emails, fucking email forwarders, look at the email, read it, synopsize it, break it apart, put notes in on it. Like have some kind of engagement in that. If a process like otherwise Speaker 1 00:27:27 Identify the pertinent info, just be like, Speaker 3 00:27:31 You better read this email below. It means you're going to be working all my, so let's talk about at least read what you're voting me and make a comment about it. Um, we talked about this, but people that just say yes without consulting team. Yeah. Five, Speaker 1 00:27:45 5:00 PM. 5:30 PM on a Friday. Hey, guess what everybody? Guess what? We're working this weekend Speaker 3 00:27:55 Overshare. So like a great producer is somebody that has a ultimately personal relationship with the client. And so the client might say things that are appropriate to share, but sometimes that information should not be shared with the team. Right. Right. That's just like being a good person. Yeah. But Speaker 1 00:28:16 In that role you're right. Because in that role they might develop a rapport. They have information. Yeah. Speaker 3 00:28:24 You gotta be respectful and know when to like keep your mouth shut. Um, on that line, it's knowing when something's a private conversation versus a group conversation, you know? So that's important too. High maintenance, like Speaker 1 00:28:40 Over like just every five minutes. When's the F where's the thing. Where's the thing. I I'll give it to you when it's done. Speaker 3 00:28:50 Like I told you, I was going to be 20 minutes. It's only five minutes, like calm down. And that's the re that's the stress thing. You feel that stress. And then you get, you get focused on that as an artist and you start making mistakes. That's when mistakes happen is when there isn't that like confident professionalism going on. Yeah. Yeah. Breathe. Speaker 1 00:29:09 Just breathe. It's good. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 3 00:29:12 Just free again, like a lot of the opposite of the attributes that we talked about, but anybody that is not really good at saying no or keeping client on task when it comes to money and uh, the over asking for things that are out of scope, right. Um, producers that are bad writers are problem with clarity being really, really important. If you read a sentence and you don't understand what they're saying. Yeah. There Speaker 1 00:29:38 Shouldn't be ambiguity. This is, uh, yeah. This is not open to interpretation. Yeah. Speaker 3 00:29:45 So now what's interesting. This is an interesting point. And I wrote it down cause I wanted to make it is that they're respectful of the creative director of boundaries. Producers should be creative. They should engage in the creative conversations, but there has to be a decider. And that decider has to be the creative director of course, with influence and input from the producer. But there has to be somebody that ultimately is like noticing, oh, so Speaker 1 00:30:10 Producer as creative director. Yeah. That can get messy. It Speaker 3 00:30:15 Gets real messy. And they have to kind of find that nuanced line with each creative director that they work with because some direct creative directors like to be pushed around a little bit by their producer. I like when a producer kind of pushes back because it makes me more prepared for a client conversation. But some creative directors are like, no, no, no. Like I heard everything Speaker 4 00:30:37 Saying, Speaker 3 00:30:39 Yeah. So that's, that's important. But the email forwarders and the hover, I Speaker 1 00:30:46 Was just thinking, we just, we just did a whole episode on producers by two people who are not primarily producers, but you know, we work with them. We love them. Speaker 3 00:30:56 Honestly, the best creative directors are a little bit producer and the best producers are a little bit cool. That makes sense. Yeah. Okay. Well on that note, we'll talk to you this right here.