Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:01 Hi,
Speaker 2 00:00:03 I'm Austin.
Speaker 4 00:00:17 What is a specific insecurity that you have had to overcome as a designer? So it doesn't have to be like general enough that it's like imposter syndrome, but like a specific thing that maybe in the beginning you were like, oh,
Speaker 2 00:00:29 I'll tell one from an educational point of view. And I think it relates because it's, I think when I first started as an educator, there was this thing in the back of my mind that told me I needed to like, be able to answer every single question a student would ever ask. You know what I mean? Like whether it was like a software thing, a hardware thing, a design instead, and it's obviously that's impossible. Nobody knows everything and I've actually become more comfortable. And I try to teach this idea too, of like embrace the uncertainty and embrace that place of not knowing, because that's where we discover. If you're in a place where you're so insecure that you don't know something, then you're going to have a fight with this righteousness to like, prove that, you know, and you're just closed off. There's no learning there. Like if somebody comes into a class and they already know everything, I'm like, well then why are you in this class?
Speaker 2 00:01:22 But, you know, I tell, like when I teach my intro to motion class, I'm like, look, I'm going to answer 90% of your questions. I know how to same questions. I'm going to be able to say, I know exactly how to help you here. And then you, but you're always, I'm like every single quarter, like more than 10 years now, I'm like, somebody's going to ask me something. I don't know the answer. And I'm going to learn something new, you know? Cause I get to sit there and I can look it up and I can figure it out. And that might make, take me 30 minutes or I can sit there at the front of the room and go, who knows how to do this thing. And someone will be like, do you want us to try this menu? And someone else will be like, wait, no, this, and in five minutes we'll have this kind of fun banter and we'll, we'll figure out the thing. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:02:05 I think the biggest tool a teacher can teach is the ability to find answers and solutions. Not to just give them the answers and solutions, but teach them how to teach them how to fish.
Speaker 4 00:02:16 I was paying attention about a fish.
Speaker 2 00:02:18 No, there's like a yin and a young to it. There really
Speaker 1 00:02:25 Was
Speaker 4 00:02:25 That.
Speaker 2 00:02:26 Well, I think it's, it's, it's supposed to be pronounced young. I believe Chinese pronunciation
Speaker 1 00:02:33 Teaching.
Speaker 4 00:02:34 Yeah. Already teaching right here.
Speaker 2 00:02:36 Yeah. But there's that, there's the given the take, right? There's I can't do everything for four students and trying to do everything for them as a disservice because they need to, I need to, you know, bring it here and then it's like, they need to meet me and then there's that flow back and forth.
Speaker 4 00:02:57 Um, so this could be like in your guys's specific fields or in design in general or even just in your life. Um, but what activity it makes you feel most like yourself?
Speaker 2 00:03:06 I think what I'm in the flow. Right? Like they talk about it. There's a lot of people talking about the flow state, right? Like, I mean, so in a way, I guess whenever you're pro I probably feel most like myself in whatever I'm doing when I'm in a flow state, but the things that I do all the time, right. Certainly like when I get into design groove, right. Or emotion group, like when I'm making something or in problem solving or just creating something like there I'm feeling very much in that, in that flow, in that space meditation for me, I mentioned that earlier, that's another place where I try to just be right. And I can, I can get into that space a lot in a meditation. But, and I think that flow also comes in teaching too. Like sometimes it's like, I dunno, like there's like a grace to it. You just feel like, okay, everything is unfolding and it, it, it feels right. And it feels good.
Speaker 1 00:04:00 Well, from a work perspective, I think, uh, my thing that I love doing is I'm writing a brief and doing the research and brainstorming the different directional ways that could go. Like, so starting to make stuff, find stuff, pull inspiration, but like coming up with that perspective, studio perspective and point of view, I love that. And I love that kickoff talking people through it and seeing people spark to the different ways it can go. And like, just feeling that like, oh yeah, that that's you, you're going to take that direction. Go. You know, that's really so fun.
Speaker 1 00:04:43 Oh, my things is like, if I've ever speaking somewhere and somebody emails me or anyone just emails me, like I'm not going to get back to them in two seconds, but I will take an afternoon and just bang out all the inbox questions. Like I get questions from students all the time. Like I have to write something on my it at emotion designer that really inspires me. And, and would you answer some questions and response is always very quick. Yes. Tell me what to do. Tell me what my deadline. And it's like, sure. Send me when you need this by. So like, I'm very organized. So I keep a do a Google doc together and I, when I write answers to questions, I like do it all in this one doc. And very rarely I'm asked a question. It's usually like the same six or 10 questions that I'm asked, so I can just copy and paste. And then after I read, put all that in which of course takes like four seconds, I go and I read them to make sure they're still something I want to add to it. But then I'll like reveal that. All right. But these are the questions you should have asked. And I hope,
Speaker 1 00:05:48 And I dropped the knowledge fucking,
Speaker 4 00:05:50 Or the questions that people should
Speaker 1 00:05:51 Ask usually. Like, what was your favorite project you worked on? Um, who inspires me? Where do I fit? A lot of that is like, where do you find inspiration? Um, what kind of projects did you do that you liked the most? And you know, a lot of it's like, what's it like being a female business owner? My answer is always like, what's it like being a business owner? So I, you know, I do like the gentle corrections and I, but yeah, I'll say, listen, I'll actually be fun. I'll go through and like kind of find it.
Speaker 4 00:06:28 Yeah. Even just like interviewing, like when you're, you know, usually at the end of an interview, someone says like, do you have any questions for me? So that would be really helpful for students to hear kind of like, okay.
Speaker 2 00:06:38 Oh yeah. Cause that's always, yeah. Do you have any suggestions? Like what a students should be prepared to ask a potential employer?
Speaker 1 00:06:44 Oh God. Yes. Like, first of all, you have to come with questions you have to come up with, but you also got to read the room and know like when to stop asking questions, I'd ask questions about the culture of the studio. You know, even though they might not be a hundred percent honest with you, I think it's important to kind of let them know that you're thinking about it, not culture from like, am I going to be here all night? Every night? You know, but culture, like, do people hang out with each other? What's yeah. What are the fun things that people in the studio like to do together? Just all of that stuff.
Speaker 2 00:07:22 Yeah. And you gave me an ass things like what's a day, like, what's it like for you working here a day to day? Like give me an average day.
Speaker 1 00:07:29 I think asking how much access they're going to have to their creative directors is an important question that we never get asked because that gets into like mentorship and
Speaker 2 00:07:39 Yeah. Like, will I be mentored? No,
Speaker 1 00:07:43 No, Yes,
Speaker 2 00:07:46 Definitely. I'm going to ask the ISR. I was like, when I took the job here at Western, like who's going to be my mentor mentor when I'm in a new place. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:07:57 Who will it be interacting with on a daily basis? And then that will lead us to say, well, every job has a producer. So the producer will shift around based on what jobs you're on, you know? And then it would be like an, each job will have a creative director, but then you'll most likely be working with these, you know, five artists all the time. So they're going to be your peers. Oh, what have they worked on? Well, you should go to the website. I looked through it and see that they're on, you know, you can look for their names, other things or say, well, this person was instrumental on this. It's great. Those are really, really good questions to ask. I would ask about the mix of work. If there are specific accounts, you're thinking of hiring them for like, if you just landed all this Google work and you're like, I got to build a Google team. I think knowing that you're going to be on Google all the time, it's going to be really important. Um, for you, if you're, I mean, it's not a bad thing. Google's a great client, like a really great client, but, um, and they have a kind of diverse amount of work, but like you better like red, blue, yellow, and green. Cause those are the fucking cops. You got to work with
Speaker 1 00:09:02 Kind of a deal thing. So I'd ask about the diversity of work and who you'll be working with consistently and who you'll be reporting to. And if mentorship is a part of it,
Speaker 4 00:09:15 I'm curious about what your guys' weaknesses are, ends. Like what areas you're both trying to grow individually.
Speaker 2 00:09:22 And
Speaker 4 00:09:25 Aaron has no weaknesses. Maybe you can share Austin's weak. We
Speaker 1 00:09:31 Should talk about each other's weaknesses.
Speaker 2 00:09:33 Oh yeah. That'd be kind of fun.
Speaker 4 00:09:36 Yeah. That's great.
Speaker 1 00:09:37 Excellent roaster. But I changed my time and roast appropriately so that it's not like
Speaker 4 00:09:42 It's a thorough process.
Speaker 1 00:09:44 It's not, That's really funny. I'm slow roads.
Speaker 1 00:09:54 No, I don't feel comfortable. Or my weaknesses. I mean, I have, I feel like I'm still growing as a director. I wouldn't call it a weakness, but I I've said I got him a really amazing creative director and I'm a really good director and I think, Hmm. But like the reality is, is like behind the camera, I don't have as many hours, you know, it's like flying a plane, you gotta get your hours in. So the more I do it, the better I get it, the more competent I get at it. So I'd like to, I wouldn't call it a weakness, but I'd like to continue growing on that side for sure. And writing to be a great creative director and director, you have to be, in my opinion, exceptional writer, you have to be able to communicate your ideas on paper. And I wish I knew that in college I would have taken a million writing classes.
Speaker 1 00:10:44 That's the thing I was not equipped for. And I had to take classes after school and really work with a writer like Holly, actually, the part of the person, that's my friend that I said, you know, for parenting advice, she taught me how to write. And she was like, my first hire as a, as an employer. And she was admin, but she was, she'd read my stuff cause I'd have, that's another thing. How to everything you do proofed your website, everything, get, just get approved by somebody. That's a good writer. Get another set of eyes on I Austin and I for between were doing that back and forth. You got to prove this Austin. I don't trust myself. I wrote it at two in the morning. You know what I mean? Like you gotta go through that process of proofing and all of that. But she really taught me how to write. I was like, but it's really important. The flow she's like, but like you can't have a sentence, be three paragraphs long. You can't put a Lipsey's for everything. So she taught me how to use a lipstick. She taught me how to use like the, you know, um, that she taught me.
Speaker 1 00:11:45 There's like nuance to writing styles that may feel like I, with her. I was able to like learn how to communicate my ideas, make sure they were coming across very quickly, briefly, very clearly. Um, and have my voice still come through because we'd argue like, I'd be like, no, no, no, no. That, and it's like, it's really important because I'm talking about that now. It's just like three separate sentences, maybe just blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, that's not how I talk, you know, come forward then. Yeah. I really like with her developed like a writing style and I wish, you know, it's really important for your clients who are my producers, sending my note to their producer who is forwarding it to their creative directors, holding it onto the executive for the director who might even send it onto a client. So all these people are reading what I'm writing. It's really important that it sound like me
Speaker 2 00:12:37 For me. I think probably public speaking in a, in a, um, not so much in a class. Right. It's in the bigger it's in the auditorium, it's at the podium. Right. And I have like, I have some friends who it's like, they could just like walk up on a stage and just start riffing. And they're super funny and comfortable. And it's like, and they don't care. And it's like, that's not me. Like I can get in classes on a class of 30 whatever and lead a discussion and lead a lecture and all that. And I feel great, but like if I just try to riff on stage where there's like a podium and an audience and lights, and I don't know if it's about the, you know, the setup or whatever, but I, you know, my heart starts beating and my face feels like it gets hot. So I'm assuming it's turning really red. So what I've learned is when I'm asked to either speak or present at the conferences or those, those bigger public speaking events, I need to practice, right. Like I just need to, I need to rehearse it. That's what I've discovered works best for me is I need to work at it. I work out the presentation, I work out the flow and I just, I just put the time in and
Speaker 2 00:13:51 I do the work, you know, and then, and then by the time it gets to be go time, it's just like, then I chill. Then I let it go. And then I just trust that I'm gonna get up there and the words are there and it flows out. And if I improv improv and that's cool and you know, and, and, but that preparation is for me really important in that, that context I wanted to ask. So, Michelle, what do you think? I mean, so you've been, I've told you about this project that we've been working on and I think you you've seen the trailer. Right. And you got to review a few of the episodes. So from your point of view, what, what do you think? Well, I guess what do you think of it?
Speaker 1 00:14:35 You
Speaker 2 00:14:35 Know, like yeah. Your feedback from, from your point of view, your, your kind of age group and yes.
Speaker 4 00:14:43 Yeah. Well, I loved it. I watched it during, I had just gone on a trip and then had dead week and was so stressed out and was like, all right, I can just take the morning to listen to like one episode and then I'll do the rest later. And I just cleared my day. I just pushed off all of my things after I watched them for so long, because it was just so engaging. And it was, so it was one of those conversations, like listening to that just like gets you fired up and just like, makes you want to like dive into it. And so of course I didn't dive into it. I just got last night, two more, which wasn't quite effective, but yeah, I think, I think it's great. I think it's really helpful and lovely to just like hear the inside of something.
Speaker 4 00:15:19 And I think both of you to speak very candidly, I love that you guys spoke in details a lot. Like you didn't just say like the budget, you would like give the budget because, um, those are things that just like, people speak vaguely about a lot of times, but like when you're a student and you haven't like actually really gone into it, it's like, it just contributes to the imposter syndrome. Cause were like, I'm going to pretend like, I know what you're talking about when you talk about a big range or a small range, but I don't know what you're talking about. So it was really helpful that like, Aaron, I think a lot of times you were, you gave like a specific timeframe for a project. Like you gave the number of weeks, which was really helpful because we're just like kind of going into it blind.
Speaker 4 00:15:58 And so we're like, what is a big timeframe? What is a small timeframe? Because our only frame of reference are these school projects, which go by the quarter system and not every student has like an Austin that can give them like the kind of ins and out of the fields. Like most professors. Yeah. Like they're just like, not like, they're just professors. That's an amazing thing to be. But like they've been out of the field for a long time or like, can't quite give you the real examples are the ones that they can are like pretty small scale. And there's nothing wrong with that. But like, I never would've thought to like shoot for the companies that you guys have worked with because it wasn't tangible until like hearing you talk about those and hearing speakers come and talk with us, it just makes it more tangible.
Speaker 4 00:16:36 And you're like, yeah. Why, why couldn't I work for those people? Or why couldn't I do that? Um, so I think like the pers, like having it be personable and like talk about these companies will hopefully do the same thing for, for young students. So one thing that I would say that, um, sort of probably goes against like your nature, Aaron, but like imposter syndrome is really apparent with students, especially at least the ones that I've interacted with and myself. And so a lot of times I noticed you guys were like reference something or like reference something in the industry that like, obviously to you too, is like apparent what it is. But like, if you don't know what that is, then it does kind of contribute to the like, I don't really know what I'm doing here. Um, so maybe just like explaining a couple of the concepts and for the most part, you guys would do it, or you would have things pop up on the screen, which was really helpful. But that was probably the only thing really, that was like a bigger, like, like for like a student audience would be more helpful.
Speaker 2 00:17:39 Somebody asked a question yesterday too, about like, they were like, what skills should students have mastered by the time they graduate? And it was like, well, we don't expect them to have mastered anything.
Speaker 1 00:17:54 We don't expect them to have mastered anything. We expect them everything. That's why the mentorship question is a really good question and making sure there's other people besides like one person that you're going to be able to absorb from. And from
Speaker 4 00:18:09 That's crazy to me that like I finished the program. I don't feel like I know anything. So that's really helpful to hear
Speaker 1 00:18:14 That cause you, yeah, you're
Speaker 2 00:18:16 Welcome.
Speaker 4 00:18:19 Thank you for teaching me everything. I know, but I'm like, I have no way ready to like go work for a company. Like I can't really think of a ton of inherent value that I can bring other than like, you know, we've had speakers say like your energy is really valuable and like having like a, like the eager hunger and all of that can like fire up the team. But I'm also like, other than that though, like I'm just a smiling face a little bit.
Speaker 1 00:18:43 It's really important for us old timers to see the industry and see every job like it's their first, oh my God, I'm working on a main title secrets. And I worked on like a hundred. So , you know, it's fine. It's fun to see that. And then just remember that, depending on where you land, you're going to be supported by all those people. And it's not just you doing the work. Like your work is going to be influenced and informed by so many other people. So you'll be shocked at how productive you are and how quick you get once you're in a pipeline, in a place. And again, that's why the mentorship and understanding the team. Whenever a young person is leaving school and talking about going and becoming a one man, one man band, somewhere like a marketing communications company or at a direct internal and client like, oh, I'll be the person doing all their social.
Speaker 1 00:19:36 Is there anybody else now? It's just me. It's like, this is not a good first job. You know, it might be something you have to take because you need a job and that's totally fine. But like, it's not an ideal first job, because an ideal for a shop has you surrounded by people that become invested in your success, went to the room with the person that's finishing the job. You'll sit down and you'll speak because you don't have imposter syndrome, but you'll ask questions and you'll say, Hey, what are you, why did you do that? Why do we need that? And they'll be like, oh my God. In my day, we had to sit in a room and you'd get my spiel right back at you from that. But that person would then take ownership of mentoring you and showing you things like, oh, look at this thing I did right in the beginning of my career. And you're like, I was two years old when that came out, maybe a coffee.
Speaker 2 00:20:34 Awesome. What a fun couple of episodes. We want to extend a huge thank you to Michelle.
Speaker 1 00:20:39 Yeah. She came to the table with a lot of really great questions that sparked a lot of conversation behind the scenes with us that are going to inform a lot of what we talk about in the coming season. So it's going to be really great.
